I feel there should be a Welder Union ! Everyone needs us, yet treat us like a secondary trade. As a matter of fact if we had our own union, we would have much more control! Having to test every job and further our tickets to and education on a constant basis, yet "fitters" not having to do so. What kind of BS is it, when the trade was divided between fitters and Welders, and the Welders dont have a Union or place in the Name?! As the MOST important position in ANY metal trade, should be given much more respect! Its like a Carpenter, One guy holds the 2x4's in place, and the other guy only having the ticket to hammer them together.....WTF ?! Never in a million years.... Yes there are some intricate drawings, yet as a Journeyman Welder , I had spent over 14 yrs fitting metal together , structurally, Pressure and piping... ffs. That is called Competency from travelling around on many jobs as an apprentice and learning many different processes and fabrication... " Journeyman" What is up with the other trades earning the same deniro when we have to further skills continually...ie: TIG etc.... yet only earn the same hourly rate if we work Union or other " for the man" IMO Journeyman should make the same as other Journeyman.... Yet Pressure should map more, and TIG even moreso... When it comes to pressure.. So GD tired of hearing the ignorant b*tching about " how do they get the job when , they (we) dont have a fitters ticket".. Give it up!! EVERY Welder ticket should trump any Fitting ticket !!! If they didnt have us , they would be Screwed!! Why don't we start our own!!! So we demand much more respect than given.. Just thinking out loud ! Any real reasons or thoughts why we allow ourselves to bent over and be directed by other trades?! TIA JonnyJeremiah Johnson:after laboriously teaching Swan one word of English, Jeremiah points to himself Great hunter. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah : Fine figure of a man. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah Johnson: Good. That is all you need to know. For now.
Reply:I'm not a fitter but an Ironworker. I like that I'm there as a welder, but when there's no welding to be done there's plenty of other work that I can do.IW Local 580 NY, NY
Reply:Oh yes... make no mistake , or should I say.... Please don't get me wrong!! I by no means intend to mean nor say.... being ... PreMadonna like! I for one , I am a connector ! I also have rodbusted , before even stepping on Steel with the Ironworkers! As a Welder, I also spin wrenches, fabricate, AND weld...it is in the constitution of the trades.. is actually 90% of any welders job.. except for bench welders. Even .. ie : on a Pipeline.. fit and weld.... on structure.... land the joices offset 'em then weld em... bridging same , shoot and shim columns, beams ... rto's...angle. My point being.. without welders.. the Ironworkers (which I work as and with), Boilermakers (of which I am a member), and Pipefitters..would be useless without ! And the name Welder's are not even in the names of any of them... yet "helper's" and fitter's are! Is definately an ignorant conspiracy IMO..lol I am also one to believe any Welder who calls themselves a Welder: former, shaper, and fusion'r... who cannot fit, is not too competent a welder... Ok so he may lay a great bead... yet if one may not "fix" any poor fitting...Which is sometimes what takes up the main of the 90%, then what good is one?! Absolutely useless! For crying out loud, before any welding may be done in ANY situation, some fittup MUST be done... and is or should be directly involved in any Welding Apprenticeship!Fitting, and Welding!! ... Fitting and Welding shall and should be one GD ticket. Speaking of which, without Unions , Fitters wouldn't have jobs unless they may weld too, and a Welder who can't fit would be in the same boat! What my main concern is being in the least 50% of the most important aspect of any fabrication on the planet... how did we become so.... overlooked shall I say.Last edited by CopperJonny; 08-05-2012 at 01:51 PM.Jeremiah Johnson:after laboriously teaching Swan one word of English, Jeremiah points to himself Great hunter. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah : Fine figure of a man. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah Johnson: Good. That is all you need to know. For now.
Reply:Originally Posted by CopperJonnyI feel there should be a Welder Union ! Everyone needs us, yet treat us like a secondary trade. As a matter of fact if we had our own union, we would have much more control! Having to test every job and further our tickets to and education on a constant basis, yet "fitters" not having to do so. What kind of BS is it, when the trade was divided between fitters and Welders, and the Welders dont have a Union or place in the Name?! As the MOST important position in ANY metal trade, should be given much more respect! Its like a Carpenter, One guy holds the 2x4's in place, and the other guy only having the ticket to hammer them together.....WTF ?! Never in a million years.... Yes there are some intricate drawings, yet as a Journeyman Welder , I had spent over 14 yrs fitting metal together , structurally, Pressure and piping... ffs. That is called Competency from travelling around on many jobs as an apprentice and learning many different processes and fabrication... " Journeyman" What is up with the other trades earning the same deniro when we have to further skills continually...ie: TIG etc.... yet only earn the same hourly rate if we work Union or other " for the man" IMO Journeyman should make the same as other Journeyman.... Yet Pressure should map more, and TIG even moreso... When it comes to pressure.. So GD tired of hearing the ignorant b*tching about " how do they get the job when , they (we) dont have a fitters ticket".. Give it up!! EVERY Welder ticket should trump any Fitting ticket !!! If they didnt have us , they would be Screwed!! Why don't we start our own!!! So we demand much more respect than given.. Just thinking out loud ! Any real reasons or thoughts why we allow ourselves to bent over and be directed by other trades?! TIA Jonny
Reply:Welders are not in the same class as fitters......engineering type fitters, not fitters that tack pieces of metal together and get someone with a qualification to weld the lot together.I am a qualified time served fitter and turner, that is I'm qualified to work any machinery in the shop, and also to take that machinery apart and fix it so that it will work once more....I have papers and trade certificates to prove that.I can also weld etc, as I learned to do that, but when it comes to a welding job I would never class myself as any form of welder whatsoever and do not hold any or been tested for any certificates that pertain to the welding trade.....that is, I'm a casual can do type of welder, there for when the situation requires it, ticket or no ticket.My last job before I finally retired was in a welding shop, working for 3 years as a welder for a guy who owned the busines and held trade certificates.....he had many applicants for the job, but none of them could work a lathe or a mill as well etc.I've been a union member all my working life, and to say that welders need a seperate union is ludicrous......probably that's how they do it in the USA, certainly not in most other parts of the World.BTW, in a welding shop, the person who grinds welds smooth and also deburrs and removes slag for a welder is termed a labourer....no brains worth thinking about but with a strong back and a willing nature to assist where needed.If this offends anyone in the workplace, it is unintended....get a qualification and you'll be looked up to not down on.Back in UK I was once told by a snot faced foreman that a good labourer was worth more than any skilled man......this guy came in on the broom, (swept the floor and tried to do machining) was too useless to do machine work so became a foreman in the office...I kid thee not....the fact that he had once been a sergeant in the army gave him qualifications for "leadership"...LOL.Ian.
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roblem is almost every trade, ie fitters, ironworkers, sheet metal, electricians and carpenters, millwrights and mechanics, probably missed some more trades use welders as part of their craft.Each trade has different weldiing requirements and techniques, I have never seen a welder on a construction site truly skilled at every trade, they all seem to specialise in one trade or some closely related trades such as IW, boilermaker, millright etc.Welders union, probably never going to happen.."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Unions! LOL, they are a thing of the past.
Reply:Take your union and stick it up your ***. What can a union give you that the company doesn't offer? Nothing! The parasite union cannot live without a company to feed off of but the company can function and thrive without the fungus like grip of a union.There are states that you can move to that force you to join a union if you want to work. Go there and see what a "workers utopia" it is.I hate unions like the communists that they are.Two turn tables and a microphone.
Reply:"Shut the f@#$ up and weld." " I wanna see sparks flying,don't wanna hear no welders crying." Welders will never stick together because welders don't trust other welders. You put 10 welders together for 3 or 4 months they will start turning on each other like wolves. I don't know why but I do know it happens. I don't give a crap bout who has what label or classification. I just wanna show up,do my job(welding/fabrication )and go home to my family. I'm tired of lil limp wrist welders thinking they're saving the world one weld at a time. Just shut the f#$% up and weld
Reply:Originally Posted by PangeaTake your union and stick it up your ***. What can a union give you that the company doesn't offer? Nothing! The parasite union cannot live without a company to feed off of but the company can function and thrive without the fungus like grip of a union.There are states that you can move to that force you to join a union if you want to work. Go there and see what a "workers utopia" it is.I hate unions like the communists that they are.
Reply:Exactly.........none of ya'll unless you own your own company ( even then) would make any money nor have any benefits without the help of Unions being what they are. Stupid and ignorant Yee are If you think the "companies" you lick balls for would pay you what they are paying now FYI .... You Sir... ARE WRONG! Live better Work Union ! JonnyOh wait ... I do have to say that.... Unions these days... not what they used to be... or where started for I don't think. My experience as a Member of one who supports the leaders of the International in Kansas with OUR dues.. So damn amateur .. reminds me of Hoffa. Un Fricken real! And thats the truth... and for that reason I want our own... and anyone who f*cks up .... there out ! No severance, no compensation.... straight up Fired... kicking stones... same as the rest of us... The round table talks will be done by lawyers and accountants who know the lingo.... NOT tradesmen.... except for a few reps..... and thats it... Members by signing on , have to agree to "listen" to the whitecollars and the whitecollars have to listen to the Bluecollars... no BS...makes us look bad.... collaborating together so they understand , if coming to work for a couple of weeks on both sides by reps... so learning curves be smooth and goals realistic. Then do it. No reason why this can't be done. Anyone messes up with the pension/ what have you........PISS test, just like the rest of us have to......Last edited by CopperJonny; 08-06-2012 at 04:05 PM.Jeremiah Johnson:after laboriously teaching Swan one word of English, Jeremiah points to himself Great hunter. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah : Fine figure of a man. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah Johnson: Good. That is all you need to know. For now.
Reply:Originally Posted by jeremy. Ayou are are just lost completely, before you reply you should talk to someone who really knows what they are talking about. for one the unions are what made the 40 hour work week they made your overtime and double time exist then and now. they brought you better working conditions. you talk of parasites?????? you sir are a parasite for condemning something that has provided for you and many like you without the knowledge of the situation. Jeremy
Reply:I know how unions work. They drag along useless idiots that shouldn't have a job. They also hold back the ones that deserve the best. I don't care what they did for the "job", now days they lost all meaning and just cost business more money. Wonder why jobs are going over seas?
Reply:Originally Posted by PangeaYeah, junior, what would I know about your precious unions. (Pangea makes fist pumping motion, the universal symbol of the jagoff). I've been in two of the parasitic organizations and steeped in the lore/lies of them. Have fun in your socialist wet dream, komrad.
Reply:Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Well... I certainly feel for the phrase about " no wonder why jobs are going over seas " umm yeah... blame the working fella who only wants fair wages for everyone... not the pennies that the company wants to spend, and receive from other countries.... Yeah don't blame the money hungry economy controlling corporations and O&G companies who are among the first to line up to receive tax benefits and relief , from there favourite fellow in office! And multi Million and Billion dollar bailouts... nice try... doesn't hold. Proof is in the Puddin' as they say Also thank you for identifying some of the "Useless and Thankless Idiots" who prefer to sit back and allow others to do the work for them!!! To increase YOUR wages and provide the benefits to fit the means of having any sort of life that YOU and YOUR FAMILY lead! Seeing that Pin on your shoulder , I would think that you must be proud of the freedom "OTHERS" have sacrificed everything they had and have for! Yet by the sounds of it, I'm pretty sure you don't give a rats *** about that either!! If you don't want to spend your energy trying to up your, my .. and everyones quality of life.... thats your thing Dude.... But Blasting those who have lost there lives ( a BIG reason behind the beginnings of the whole organization) and working conditions we face due to "The Man" pinching pennies.... thats pretty darn shameful!! Absolutely the "few" HAVE ruined it for the many, thats the case in everything.. EVERYWHERE!!!Yet traditionally and professionally , Quality is second to none!!! No different than you , I or Joe Blow down the road , going to the pump and seeing the hike prior to the long weekend.. thats what they are!! Customers... whining about a few extra deniro. Traditionally they have also many "fixes" when it comes to overseas work being done... do to quality of materials and workmanship... also ... safety factors.. come on. So inturn they end up costing in the least triple what the original costs where. Labour is 40% of the cost of any project. By Standard. So they want to do this overseas to save what 20...30% and the shipping doesnt cost that , infrastructure maintenance ( O&G) BS. These are dealings brought on by no other than the Governments in the first place. No matter what the cost hypothetically, when citizens do the work.. naturally 100%( most of the time) of the pay checks stay within the borders... not just the mere taxes paid by the immigrants. So really , who's looking out for National Economic Security! Sorry pal... That HorseSh*t doesn't fly with me neither!!Last edited by CopperJonny; 08-06-2012 at 10:41 PM.Jeremiah Johnson:after laboriously teaching Swan one word of English, Jeremiah points to himself Great hunter. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah : Fine figure of a man. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah Johnson: Good. That is all you need to know. For now.
Reply:Unions have their ups and downs. Don't like it, don't join one and get over it. Last time I checked I'm happy with my wages/benefits, and the company I work for isn't quite going out of business. Sure, I'd love to get more, and they'd like to pay me less. That's where this crazy bargaining thing comes in, and bam, life goes on.IW Local 580 NY, NY
Reply:Hey a .... sorry everyone, VPT I apologize man, I'm sorry I didn't intend to allow myself to get all caught up there... my bad!!.. I guess the remark about caring, sort of shook me... My bad.. Yeah!! they are not for everyone, never thought I would be in one, let alone a Welder when I was young.. merely the path I ended up on.. And don't get me wrong I have aspirations of working for myself too.. Actually bought me another Lincoln last year and have planned on using my skills to be an entrepreneur someday too.. until I was severely screwed on a shutdown ...fracturing seven vertebrae in a pinch point.... 14 years going hard , and it finally caught up with me.... GD split second of complacency on my behalf to be honest.. humbles a fella for sure.. I'm the fella who wanted to rebuild the reputation of the Unions... thats so we have careers and not merely jobs.. Bustin' butt to get er done.... Safely (blew that all to hell), Right the first time, and efficient thats how I ended up hurt.. my bad!( rushing) And thats the first time I've ever been in an industrial accident!( within my direct crew) Go big or go home I guess. And no the union hasn't really done anything for me, don't think there is anything one Could do for me anyhow. Just time... and heck I don't think the Compensation board are looking at training me as an inspector anyhow( just a feeling) and after doing MS Office ( Excel,Word,PowerPoint etc) in courses lately to "gear" me towards inspection I have to go in the morning to do a "Job Search" as a Desk Jockey........ not on my watch. I certainly didn't spend all the few years learning skills and busting my back to earn minimum wage... No freakin' way!!!So I'm gearing up and have been getting off these god forsaken pain killers for a couple of months and been thinking im going to get try and back at er... ' cause I want to marry "Her" and I need to do that... only now hopefully not as one of those "useless ****". Yet certainly wont be throwing a couple of chain falls over each shoulder and hiking up the stairs or even a length of 3"x1/4 or 3/8" angle over a shoulder and across the lot with them... time to work smart I guess. For that I'm thinking I may be lucky to be in one (union) Time to let the younger fellas earn some stripes and maybe start passing on what I have learned (which truly was almost always the safest way at the time) as well as learn new things, or maybe try and do my own thing smartly with my own gear... we'll see. Went straight to work following release from the hospital the next day after being airlifted .. only lasted 10 part days until I couldn't handle it anymore on 30+ codeine and opiate meds just to stifle the extreme pain, after convincing the Doc I could do it and having the company fight the fact I couldn't do it even after trying to "walk it off" and save them from having insurance premiums upped (although my pride was also paramount in that decision where I did it myself) With all of this time off, I never could understand why being such an important factor in metal fabrication.. why the heck when we are so needed all over, why we have not any regulations, policies, procedures or legislation in the Welding and even Inspection drawn up by our own.. something fishy to me. And no , I don't care what anyone does... we all have to do something and as long as were doing it Kudos ! ( the banks don't care how we get the money, as long as they get em paid) I just am hoping someone would know the honest to God reason why being such a specialized and important factor in the trades ... we don't have any control of our trade Work Smart, work steady!! Not hard !JonnyJeremiah Johnson:after laboriously teaching Swan one word of English, Jeremiah points to himself Great hunter. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah : Fine figure of a man. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah Johnson: Good. That is all you need to know. For now.
Reply:Originally Posted by BlueArcUnions have their ups and downs. Don't like it, don't join one and get over it. Last time I checked I'm happy with my wages/benefits, and the company I work for isn't quite going out of business. Sure, I'd love to get more, and they'd like to pay me less. That's where this crazy bargaining thing comes in, and bam, life goes on.
Reply:I hesitate to say anything, because this is always a polarizing topic. But to me, some of the statements made above on both sides are correct. And therein lies the problem. I have full appreciation for what unions brought to the table in terms of safe working conditions, better pay, etc. But...IMO the pendulum of union vs employer has swung way too far in the union direction.The best answer lies somewhere in the middle of both sides.For me, the union type job doesn't work because I don't want someone telling me what I 'can't do because it's taking someones job. I'm not a one trick pony and refuse to be treated as one.As for the statement, "Yet traditionally and professionally , Quality is second to none!!!", I guess someone failed to tell the UAW in Detroit because I've had the 'pleasure' of repairing so many quality things on my American made automobiles over the past few decades. the 'fair wage' and benefits are what drove our automobile industry to near bankruptcy.Oh well... let the arguments continue.PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:The problem is the bureaucracy. You shouldnt be trying to create a union for welders, you should be trying to get rid of the union for fitters it seems.
Reply:I always get a warm glow when I see someone, who thumbed their nose at the aspect of working within Union controlled workplaces, either get the chop (lost their job) or get wacked for being in the wrong place doing the wrong thing without adequate protection.Unions were created for the protection of the workforce, but if they get top loaded with power hungry officials who like to exercise control by bending the bosses unnecessarily, then it's the workers who suffer in the end by constant work stoppages and loss of pay etc.Without Union overseeing, what boss would willingly pay the rate and apply ALL safety guidelines and practices......none....the greed to make extra dollars at the workers expense is too powerfull an incentive to miss.....it goes by the title EXPLOITATION, using my sweat for your benefit.The same goes for the practice of over employing for a rush job and firing as soon as it's finished, and don't even mention severance pay as a means to compensate a worker for the employer's desire to save money during that financial year by shedding a few wage earners, so making it look good when the topic of cost cutting gets voiced.I've stood outside in the rain for a number of times when it meant going to the max to make your claim heard........ didn't want to lose the pay, but the Union support was more important than personal preferences, otherwise why have a Union if you won't support the majority decision of your fellow workers.At the same time there's safety and strength in numbers, that's why a union in one firm, by their very solidarity, can support the claims of the workers in other firms who are in dispute with their management.Going it alone, for whatever reason seems good, is doomed to failure due to misinterpretation of the motives of the claims, and the boss can sometimes just let the claimants "wither on the vine" by not negotiating and holding out aginst the small Union action that does not have the finances to sustain a prolonged and sometimes acrimonious campaign.If you can't understand that aspect you haven't understood the need and combined power of a Union to bring the management to the negotiating table without the management's bloody confrontationalistic practices they seem to wield as a first choice in dealing with any worker grievances.As a group, without any deviation, the employers are out to pay as little as they can for as many hours as they can make the workers work.Without a Union to "guide" them they will always do just that.If you think otherwise you are still working for $10 an hour and 45 hours per week, no paid holidays, no sick pay, no pay in lieue of notice and no severance pay......also overtime not paid at overtime rates....etc etc the list of grievances the managers and bosses have created is as long as your arm.Think twice when you enter a non Union shop......"abandon all hope, all ye who enter this place".The fact that Western workers are paid more than their Chinese counterparts is because they won't work for a bowl of rice and a dollar a day, and when you support a country that applies those practices by buying their goods, you undermine your own economy.....how much more stupid do you want to get???Ian.
Reply:This coming from a guy who's country has a lower per capita wage than the US and pays $3 for a Coca-cola, and $4 for a tube of Chapstick. That's what you get when you set a minimum wage for nearly everyone in a country (basically what a union does). You can keep it.
Reply:I am not a union member and have never been. From the outside, it seems that unions (today) are parasites. I feel that the unions have really dropped the ball on combating outsourcing and foreign competition. They had the power to make real changes when that all started but didn't. Leveling the playing field with labor laws and environmental regs. that apply to all products sold in USA, and other advanced nations, should have been their highest priority.Last edited by fortyonethirty; 08-07-2012 at 02:55 PM.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonI vote against unions.what gets me is the guys that come on slamming peoples livelihood...Respect should be given on both sides....I happen to be UNION and very proud, but i respect a craftsmen that is non union....to get on here and call names and slam the way someone feeds their family is gaudy....and to me gaudy is the scum of the earth...I just dont get slamming another workers life....If the entire middle class doesnt come together soon and were in for some low wage lifestyles....SO the union didnt work for you, it might work great for the next guy..It does for me, i worked non union for 5 years and made dick, no retirement, no safely, no formal training....It works great for me....I dont know just thinking out loud here too...go back to being gaudy...I love this forum but there are a good bit of people with no manners. And dont get me wrong, im not trying to act high and mighty but when it comes to feeding your family and paying your bills, and someone is basically saying your a piece of **** cause something you belong to for work purposes..thats a piece of ****....BTW, misinformation on here...NO STATE has laws to MAKE you join a union, none!..They make you pay an assessment fee for the handling of your contract cause YOU choose to work at a union shop and not be part of the union...look it up..
Reply:Originally Posted by PangeaTake your union and stick it up your ***. What can a union give you that the company doesn't offer? Nothing! The parasite union cannot live without a company to feed off of but the company can function and thrive without the fungus like grip of a union.There are states that you can move to that force you to join a union if you want to work. Go there and see what a "workers utopia" it is.I hate unions like the communists that they are.
Reply:Originally Posted by BlueArcUnions have their ups and downs. Don't like it, don't join one and get over it. Last time I checked I'm happy with my wages/benefits, and the company I work for isn't quite going out of business. Sure, I'd love to get more, and they'd like to pay me less. That's where this crazy bargaining thing comes in, and bam, life goes on.
Reply:Originally Posted by BlueArcHey that's what I mean. If you don't like them, don't join one, vote against them etc. I don't mean that in a combative way at all either.I should also say that when I spoke of unions earlier, I really meant in the building trades (not UAW, public sector, etc). I'm also from a different market than most men on here, so things are different for me.We have a minimum wage here. I can't tell you for sure, but I'm confident a small percentage of our national workforce is organized in a union.
Reply:I think when it comes to Unionism, the opinion of some is that it must take over the reins of government and cure all evils.....big laugh, Unions were established to combat the malpractices of the business owners, not the practices of the workers.I personally will not work alongside or with a non union member....those people would steal the bread out of your mouth.....if it's good enough for me to fight for my rights then I despise those that want the same as me without having fought for it.Generally, but not in all cases, people who do not want to belong to unions when the majority of the work force in their workplace are, have some notion that the boss is going to give them a rise for being goddy goody, and a few extra weeks paid holiday too, and at the same time give them double time when they work overtime.......LOL.....you poor fools......the boss dislikes arse lickers worse than he hates Unionist, but at least he knows that the Union is a combined force that he can negotiate with and come to a cohesive agreement that is legal and binding on both sides.Wherever I have worked and been involved in Union /bosses disputes, those that tried to slip in the back door (scabs) and work when the main force were taking industrial action and losing pay for their efforts, were, after the dispute was settled, forced by peer pressure to donate their ill gotten gains to a charity, or terminate their employment otherwise......this has always been supported by the bosses who wanted no further workplace disruptions once the issue had been resolved.Unionists believe strongly that "if you aren't with us you most definately are against us, of that there can be no doubt", and those that try to undermine the efforts of a Union are pushing sh!t uphill with a sharp stick.No one likes to lose money, but when the fight is over conditions, then money lost for a just cause is money gained, otherwise individually you'd be reduced to askinjg the boss humbly with cap in hand and head bowed low for a few bob more to put bread on the table.....there's nothing worse than a grovelling slave scratching in the dirt for a living.Some idiot, a few posts back, likened Unionists to Communists.......ROTFLMAO......are you for real???......try that one in a Communist country.Ian.
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OL, this is funny stuff and I see all the typical arguments. When I was younger and took a tour of the local "union mill" all I seen was lazy asses sitting in chairs waiting to do their one job and still getting paid $25 and hour + many benefits. I was at total amazement watching these guys sitting around, reading a book, watching TV, playing cards.... The company went out of business and has changed hand 3 times now and is in the middle of a complete shutdown. I hear they can get paper cheaper from other countries where people actually work for their money.Safe work environment, not enough pay, not good enough benefits, etc? QUIT and find another job you whiner! I am sick of the mentality of this country lately and how lazy everyone has gotten and expect the world. Tough recession? Just wait, its going to get worse, in the end you may have to actually work like the rest of us!
Reply:Originally Posted by puddytatSome idiot, a few posts back, likened Unionists to Communists.......ROTFLMAO......are you for real???......try that one in a Communist country.Ian.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTLOL, this is funny stuff and I see all the typical arguments. When I was younger and took a tour of the local "union mill" all I seen was lazy asses sitting in chairs waiting to do their one job and still getting paid $25 and hour + many benefits. I was at total amazement watching these guys sitting around, reading a book, watching TV, playing cards.... The company went out of business and has changed hand 3 times now and is in the middle of a complete shutdown. I hear they can get paper cheaper from other countries where people actually work for their money.Safe work environment, not enough pay, not good enough benefits, etc? QUIT and find another job you whiner! I am sick of the mentality of this country lately and how lazy everyone has gotten and expect the world. Tough recession? Just wait, its going to get worse, in the end you may have to actually work like the rest of us!
Reply:Oh yes... What I forgot to mention on the OP was.. IF YOU ARE NOT A MEMBER, YOU HAVE NO SAY!! YOUR VOICE GOES UNHEARD !!!Thats because of the choices you make!! Its definitely not about hurting anyone, not ever... working conditions and skills versus fair compensation. For EVERYBODY. You know what hurts?! Is when battles are fought and success for everyone roars... and some unthankful ones undermine what ALL OF OUR ForeFathers and Mothers who fought so hard to earn... Thats what a Parasite is! Stay safe, work smart We need you!!And VPT... Wow.. I see how it is... fool no more you will... You truly are a Nazi Piece of **** aren't you!! Maybe take your BS and move to another country/continent... your slavish talents will be put to much better use.. and you may also be "fodder" when that regime is overturned by "the New World"! **** what I would do to run into you on a street my Boy!! Aghh HaHAHA ! You keep earning our pennies and kneeling under the desk Pal... thats where you belong.. Sit!!...Stay!!........ Mutt!!Last edited by CopperJonny; 08-08-2012 at 07:28 PM.Jeremiah Johnson:after laboriously teaching Swan one word of English, Jeremiah points to himself Great hunter. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah : Fine figure of a man. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah Johnson: Good. That is all you need to know. For now.
Reply:Y'all sound like a bunch of whiney lil beeches, both sides. Don't worry bout what another man does to feed his family. It ain't nobody's business. Bunch of panty waist sewing circle dumbazzes. Shut the phuck up and handle your business
Reply:Because one groups stupidity effects everyone!
Reply:keep working for pennies.. and see how far we get... Snap the **** out of itYou complain about being "held back by Union's"! ... thats hilarious... is quite evident they are the most forward looking bunch of hard working men and women around... and you owe them Many Thanks for putting the food on your table and help pay the bills... Or WE would all be second and third world countries... Hopefully someday you will grow up and see the light... as a matter of fact.... EVERYONE owes one union or another many thanks for what have and are able to maintain the lifestyle you do! You don't have to like it, But you KNOW it! And will remember it when you shave your mug for work next... cause I know You'll be thinking about that one for however long it takes for you to come to terms with it. And that gives me peace!Last edited by CopperJonny; 08-08-2012 at 09:25 PM.Jeremiah Johnson:after laboriously teaching Swan one word of English, Jeremiah points to himself Great hunter. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah : Fine figure of a man. Yes? Swan: Yes. Jeremiah Johnson: Good. That is all you need to know. For now.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTBecause one groups stupidity effects everyone!
Reply:A forward thinking management can call the Union's bluff anyday if they propose unrealistic demands.When they do get out of hand and confrontation takes place, it's always the Union that comes out second best.....(name one Union unrealistic powerplay that won the day) The old saying, "you don't bite the hand that feeds you" is very applicable in Management/Union relationships.I could name a few powerplay situations I was involved in where the management were at fault, lost and had to back down, but as they were the bad guys and lost the call, that is what Union membership is all about.Anyone who worked for R.V. Dorman in Melbourne Australia in July 1982 will know what sneaky tricks a management can get up to.....like piling on excess work force numbers to get a large production item out in record time, then attempting to sack the excess work force at short notice without any entitlements once the job was finished.In that particular case the job produced for lysaghs, the steel people, hung on the crane hook for 3 days while management gnashed their teeth and uttered all kinds of threats, (The Manager, a little short arsed Pommy Bastard even hinted that the industrial action would cost the workforce their jobs if they didn't get back to work)..... but had to settle the issue to get the job out of the factory.The factory management (having scheduled secretly for the factory to be closed and relocated), terminated 70% of the workforce a week later and closed the factory a month later, having moved the production and a few of the remaining workforce to another facility as they had planned.In many ways this was the best thing that happened for me, as I found another job within 3 weeks and spent the last 17 years of my working life there, going from a common shop floor worker within 1 year to time and motion study as a planning technician in the engineering office.....very prestigious for this boy....LOL.Ian.Last edited by puddytat; 09-13-2012 at 10:10 PM.
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